Transcript: GOPers Shocked to Learn Their Own Voters Are Angry at Musk

Sargent: Now it’s starting to look very plausible that Trump and Musk will ignore court orders. JD Vance tweeted that judges aren’t allowed to constrain Trump’s legitimate power. Musk has been tweeting about a judicial coup against Trump. I think this represents another level, another test for Republicans. But as you say, they seem to be eagerly embracing Musk’s and Trump’s abuses of power, despite the assurances to voters. At this point, I can’t see them even condemning the outright defiance of the courts. Then what?

Saunders: Well, I think there’s going to be a breaking point, and it may be defiance of a court order or a Supreme Court ruling. The other place I’d be looking is the military. That could also precipitate a real confrontation, as it almost did in the Lafayette Square case. One question that keeps coming up when you read things is, Well, nobody would think of history, because when I write about old cases—the Vietnam War and the Korean War—the people who actually do speak up and turn on even president of their own party get a lot of play in the cases and the history books that I read. So you do wonder, at a certain point, when they would think of history. And maybe that’s the moment when they will, but by then, arguably, it will be too late.

You do have the sense that there used to be more Republicans with subject matter expertise who cared about the policy—the McCains, the Corkers to some extent. And it used to pay to be really invested in policy. In other words, ambition could be a useful check. At this point, that’s clearly not happening [with] Bill Cassidy voting for RFK Jr, Joni Ernst voting for Hegseth. They’re not going to be a check on policy grounds the way Corker was. At least he would speak out—and others did, too, like Lindsey Graham on Russia and also the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. So there were some examples of pushback, but you’re not going to get policy-related pushback here. The question is whether you’re going to get pushback at that moment of crisis, a January 6–type level crisis like the defying a court order, a confrontation with the military. That’s the real point of no return.